a question from Jennifer on prayer:
Are we supposed to pray for protection for ourselves and our loved ones? Is it wrong to? Is there an example in the Bible where someone asks for protection? Not from sin, but from hurt or death. If we are not supposed to fear death and are supposed to want to be with Him in heaven...then why would we pray a prayer that, if honored, would leave us or our loved one here even longer? Is that not selfish? I guess it is sort of along the whole mourning thing. Where we aren't to be sad, but joyful when a loved one goes home to Christ. As I examine how Christ taught us to pray in the Lord's prayer I don't see where he shows us the example of praying for protection. Does that make sense? Any thoughts??
Jennifer, thank you for your question regarding prayer. Given some of the recent messages on God's sovereignty, you're asking some natural and good questions. I don't believe it's wrong at all to pray for protection. Our Lord's Gethsemane prayer began with "Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from me......" It seems that Christ wished to somehow be spared the terrible suffering of the cross. But then His prayer continued..."yet not what I will, but what you will." His wonderful prayer for deliverance was not sinful or selfish......it was human.....and it was so appropriately coupled with the "Your will over mine" burden. That should be the heart of our prayer as we ask for protection from injury and death that we BEG for God's will to be satisfied and His glory to be manifest....whatever the cost. While the Lord's Prayer is a wonderful tutor on prayer, it's not the only tutor.
Also consider Paul's thorn in the flesh. Paul prayed fervently that God would remove the thorn of suffering and there's no indication that Paul erred in this request. In fact, it was through prayer that Paul was made aware that God had a higher plan for His own glory and Paul's humility. God seems to leave the thorn wonderfully ambiguous so we can insert our own "thorn" and walk away with Paul's bitter/sweet lesson.
Jennifer, whatever your thorn or cup, pray fervently asking for protection and deliverance......and couple that prayer with a deep burden for His glory and His will and your instrumentation in the work of glory, whatever the cost. That's an appropriate robust prayer of a believer.
Monday, September 24, 2007
Monday, July 2, 2007
A question on discipleship
Here's the question from James E. :
As I read the words of poetry that you have written, I glory in the presence of Lord. The words you said brings a thought to mind about discipleship and mentoring. How do you find someone to be discipling, when you are not an open leader in the church. My wife and I desire to be discipling others, but we have not found anyone as of yet to disciple. How do you know who you should be discipling? We feel that God's Word instructs us to do so, but we have not had the opportunity. I feel like our age may be the reason that we are not sought out to be mentors.
James....first I must tell you I LOVE YOUR BURDEN!! Ultimately "making disciples" is what we're charged with as followers of Christ. I'm discouraged sometimes that the faith is so terminal on so many who think preaching/teaching is ONLY for them. I'm encouraged when some see the ministry of the church as equipping to nourish others.
Now, in regards to your question.....I want to see if I can modify your paradigm a bit. It sounds as if you see the only platform for discipleship as "in the church." I would encourage you to see discipleship in the "people of God" as important but maybe even secondary to "making disciples" of those who don't even know Christ. In our heavy "decisionism" context, we view discipleship as step 2 behind "conversion." I'm beginning to see them (conversion and discipleship) as not so compartmental or even sequential. In fact, I'm finding that intentional discipleship should be present, ideally, BEFORE conversion. Otherwise supposed new believers have no idea Who they're following or have any inkling as to the cost of discipleship.
John Bunyan's story (the writer of Pilgrim's Progress) is one that can teach us much on discipleship. Bunyan’s first wife had a tremendous impact on his spiritual journey. In her dowry were two books, Plain Man’s Pathway to Heaven and Practice of Piety. These books, in concert with his wife’s encouragement, did much to improve his outward "religion." His habit from boyhood of swearing and cursing was eliminated altogether as his "religion" grew. His expression of "religion" had developed so that he eventually considered himself quite pleasing to God. Then one day he overheard some spiritually mature women discussing the things of God (ie, enjoying Christ outloud) while he was at work as a tinker (pot maker). He was gripped with the reality that he was unable to identify with the depth of their experiences. For three or four years he struggled with the inner turmoil of outward religion and a longing to experience what he overheard that day. Then in 1653 he joined the Congregationalist body to which these women belonged. This AFTER being discipled by those women and his wife for years!!!!!
Bunyan's journey was MUCH longer and less efficient than a sinner's prayer....yet the impact of God's ministry through him reverberates even into today in his writings. I really believe we need to be intentional about walking with people (in AND out of the church) while worshipping Christ "outloud"........trusting that the tinkers are listening. James, keep begging for a disciple or disciples. Look around you between Sundays and you may find your disciple has been there all along. Be their friend....invite them into your home.....dine with them.....laugh with them.......and love them with the gospel of Christ.
Thanks James,
Ben
As I read the words of poetry that you have written, I glory in the presence of Lord. The words you said brings a thought to mind about discipleship and mentoring. How do you find someone to be discipling, when you are not an open leader in the church. My wife and I desire to be discipling others, but we have not found anyone as of yet to disciple. How do you know who you should be discipling? We feel that God's Word instructs us to do so, but we have not had the opportunity. I feel like our age may be the reason that we are not sought out to be mentors.
James....first I must tell you I LOVE YOUR BURDEN!! Ultimately "making disciples" is what we're charged with as followers of Christ. I'm discouraged sometimes that the faith is so terminal on so many who think preaching/teaching is ONLY for them. I'm encouraged when some see the ministry of the church as equipping to nourish others.
Now, in regards to your question.....I want to see if I can modify your paradigm a bit. It sounds as if you see the only platform for discipleship as "in the church." I would encourage you to see discipleship in the "people of God" as important but maybe even secondary to "making disciples" of those who don't even know Christ. In our heavy "decisionism" context, we view discipleship as step 2 behind "conversion." I'm beginning to see them (conversion and discipleship) as not so compartmental or even sequential. In fact, I'm finding that intentional discipleship should be present, ideally, BEFORE conversion. Otherwise supposed new believers have no idea Who they're following or have any inkling as to the cost of discipleship.
John Bunyan's story (the writer of Pilgrim's Progress) is one that can teach us much on discipleship. Bunyan’s first wife had a tremendous impact on his spiritual journey. In her dowry were two books, Plain Man’s Pathway to Heaven and Practice of Piety. These books, in concert with his wife’s encouragement, did much to improve his outward "religion." His habit from boyhood of swearing and cursing was eliminated altogether as his "religion" grew. His expression of "religion" had developed so that he eventually considered himself quite pleasing to God. Then one day he overheard some spiritually mature women discussing the things of God (ie, enjoying Christ outloud) while he was at work as a tinker (pot maker). He was gripped with the reality that he was unable to identify with the depth of their experiences. For three or four years he struggled with the inner turmoil of outward religion and a longing to experience what he overheard that day. Then in 1653 he joined the Congregationalist body to which these women belonged. This AFTER being discipled by those women and his wife for years!!!!!
Bunyan's journey was MUCH longer and less efficient than a sinner's prayer....yet the impact of God's ministry through him reverberates even into today in his writings. I really believe we need to be intentional about walking with people (in AND out of the church) while worshipping Christ "outloud"........trusting that the tinkers are listening. James, keep begging for a disciple or disciples. Look around you between Sundays and you may find your disciple has been there all along. Be their friend....invite them into your home.....dine with them.....laugh with them.......and love them with the gospel of Christ.
Thanks James,
Ben
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
A note on "lingering"
Crosspoint friends/family,
I read a devotional by John Piper recently that’s stuck with me through this sermon series. The title of the devotional is “A Word on Poetry” and in it he encourages scripture-driven truth-fueled expression of Christ in verse. His observations would apply to song or art or free verse or dance or whatever “artistic” worship we might imagine. One line in this devotional reads “So quickly do we pass over hard words and painful stories in the Bible. The poet lingers. And looks. And looks. And looks at this dark spot. Until he weeps and rages and then, perhaps, sees.”
As we’ve knelt with Mary in John 12, I can’t help but think she would have been a wonderful poet! For she lingers……and looks……and seems to really see when nobody else was listening. In an effort to linger, I’ve challenged myself and a young man I’m discipling to express in writing our enjoyment of Christ. Together we’re fighting and raging for delight in our Lord who’s so worthy of enjoyment. In the spirit of David, who was quite manly mind you, I’m posting my worship here and inviting others to share their “outloud” worship with me. It may be song, free verse, poetry or whatever……but we’ll offer up a symphony of satisfaction that will be as worship should be…..public.
Jesus, honey drips from your lips
Your words are salve for my wounds.
Lord, the contours of your moves
are distinct enough for enjoyment.
Fix my eyes on your shape and your essence
Fix my eyes on your words and your work
Fix my eyes on your people and your promises
Fix my eyes on your majesty and beauty
And with my eyes on you,
Perfect me, even me.
With my eyes on you,
Author your glory in me.
Oh Lamb, may I cup your feet and spend my fragrance?
How I would treasure that lingering memory.
My Lion, may I prepare you for your burial?
Knowing, with you, it’s only temporary.
What a delight you are….what a treasure you are…..what a wonder you are….
How worthy are you….how beautiful are you……how matchless are you….Your grace is ineffable, indescribable, incalculable, inestimable.
Lord, I pray that you’ll find us lingering today. I pray that you’ll fix our eyes on your Christ so we look and look and perhaps, see the wonders of this Lord! I pray that you’ll pry us from the cares of the world and deceitfulness of riches and point us on the Person and work of Christ. I pray that we’ll linger on His contours and words and works and movements so that we can delight in His beauty. I pray these things confessing that we can’t muster enjoyment but it’s a gift from you…..I beg for this enjoyment in your Son…..praying in His wonderful Name, Amen.
I read a devotional by John Piper recently that’s stuck with me through this sermon series. The title of the devotional is “A Word on Poetry” and in it he encourages scripture-driven truth-fueled expression of Christ in verse. His observations would apply to song or art or free verse or dance or whatever “artistic” worship we might imagine. One line in this devotional reads “So quickly do we pass over hard words and painful stories in the Bible. The poet lingers. And looks. And looks. And looks at this dark spot. Until he weeps and rages and then, perhaps, sees.”
As we’ve knelt with Mary in John 12, I can’t help but think she would have been a wonderful poet! For she lingers……and looks……and seems to really see when nobody else was listening. In an effort to linger, I’ve challenged myself and a young man I’m discipling to express in writing our enjoyment of Christ. Together we’re fighting and raging for delight in our Lord who’s so worthy of enjoyment. In the spirit of David, who was quite manly mind you, I’m posting my worship here and inviting others to share their “outloud” worship with me. It may be song, free verse, poetry or whatever……but we’ll offer up a symphony of satisfaction that will be as worship should be…..public.
Jesus, honey drips from your lips
Your words are salve for my wounds.
Lord, the contours of your moves
are distinct enough for enjoyment.
Fix my eyes on your shape and your essence
Fix my eyes on your words and your work
Fix my eyes on your people and your promises
Fix my eyes on your majesty and beauty
And with my eyes on you,
Perfect me, even me.
With my eyes on you,
Author your glory in me.
Oh Lamb, may I cup your feet and spend my fragrance?
How I would treasure that lingering memory.
My Lion, may I prepare you for your burial?
Knowing, with you, it’s only temporary.
What a delight you are….what a treasure you are…..what a wonder you are….
How worthy are you….how beautiful are you……how matchless are you….Your grace is ineffable, indescribable, incalculable, inestimable.
Lord, I pray that you’ll find us lingering today. I pray that you’ll fix our eyes on your Christ so we look and look and perhaps, see the wonders of this Lord! I pray that you’ll pry us from the cares of the world and deceitfulness of riches and point us on the Person and work of Christ. I pray that we’ll linger on His contours and words and works and movements so that we can delight in His beauty. I pray these things confessing that we can’t muster enjoyment but it’s a gift from you…..I beg for this enjoyment in your Son…..praying in His wonderful Name, Amen.
Monday, June 4, 2007
a question on alcohol
This question was after a Sunday morning service recognizing some new deacons in the Crosspoint body........
Just some thoughts and ruminations since Sunday morning....It was great and caused some deep thoughts on my part at least.
First, one statement you said in the "deacon" part of the service. I realize that you and I have different perspectives on alcohol - I see it from the perspective of what it did to me in earlier years as well as what I have seen it do to individuals and families since I have been in counseling. I don't see it as a "sin" issue as much as I see it as an "example" of holiness issue. I heard Louis Giglio speak to a group of college students (actually, my oldest son heard him in 2001 and told me) address this issue - he deflected the question as to "sin or not" and just said - "ask yourself this question - IS IT HOLY?" While "social" occasional drinking may not "hurt" long term, it CAN definitely injure someone else through witness. LIke a hispanic man at RIdgecrest a number of years ago - he was saved, quit smoking and then saw some of the older deacons of the"mother" church smoking between Sunday School and church - he left and did not return for about 6 months - he saw this as a double standard.. Anyway, I believe we should try to walk in such a way - all the time - that we will not hinder anyone - especially younger, less mature believers. Since there are a vast number of other things to drink that are non alcoholic, I think we should strive to set a higher example in that area...
Another point is where God speaks to this in Proverbs 23:29-35, God speaks of the effect that alcoholics have - a perfect description of "bed spins", hangovers, etc. But, there is one verse - vs 31 - that gives direction, and I believe commandment - that to not even look at wine when it is red and sparkles in the glass - if we are not to look at it, then drinking it would be a step beyond that.
Some things to ponder at least - this is where I come from, and I know we can come from different places, and even agree to disagree. What is done in the home may be one thing - but, I believe the example we set in our homes as well as in public should be as high as humanly possible.
One more thing that you said that really kinda side-swiped me - I understood you to say after you read the qualifications of the elder and the deacon, that the bar is set high enough - let's not set it any higher. I would have to disagree with that - I think the bar is set really high for God's glory and His purpose, and we should strive to set it as high as possible, and not look for "allowances". That may not have been what you meant by that, but that's what I heard.....
My response.....
I'm glad you saw me as approachable on these observations. I haven't arrived and want to remain teachable on these issues. When I preached on deacons and elders a couple years ago, I had the chance to study this pretty close with the other elders. In actuality, we did find a shockingly high standard for a man considered for elder or deacon. The robust picture of a man leading by God or serving by God was what fueled my comment to not raise the bar above God's standard. I really don't feel compelled to preach a higher standard than God communicated to Timothy via Paul. The issue of alcohol must have been problem then too......for him to list it separately in both the elder and deacon qualifications alongside issues of temperance. It must have been a potentially volatile concern.....as it continues to be now. But yet Paul did not tell Timothy that a candidate must abstain. I don't think we should make the mistake of saying our times are different just because we have cars and more beverage choices. For alcohol use to be listed separately then, it must have a family-destroyer and home-crusher.....much like it can be now. To raise the bar above the biblical standard would be like saying that since marriage is such a challenge for so many.....and since it's difficult to serve unhindered with a wife....that deacon or elder hopefuls shouldn't marry. But Paul shows us the model for how to handle this by his handling of marriage. He says, (Ben's lame summary) "as for me.....I'll not marry....because it slows me down.....but I won't raise the bar above God's standard and impose my standards on you." Paul may be toward marriage like you are toward alcohol.....feeling like there's no option but to abstain.....and I'm honoring that choice, like I appreciate Paul's choice not to marry.
As for the issue of holiness. I know men (and I can honestly say I'm one of them) who can have a glass of wine in faith. The glass of wine is no less holy than a piece of cheesecake or mountain high apple pie Christi makes. What makes it holy or not is the heart behind the beverage or dessert or cheeseburger. If it's not consumed in faith, then it's sin. If it is consumed in faith, I'm calling it holy! The bigger concern, and what seems to Paul to matter most, is temperance. Were I to take a preaching tangent, from the list of deacon qualifications, I would rather take one on the issue of temperance. There are far too many men who are preaching or teaching deep satisfaction and contentment in the person and work of Christ.....while their bodies are preaching a contrary message of satisfaction in the kitchen. I'm prone to be one of these men. Everything in me wants to eat when I'm happy or sad....or anywhere in between for that matter. IF I were to tangent, it would be a message (or messages) on temperance with food, drink, rest, exercise, recreation, travel....or the myriad of life-sucking propensities we share with other Americans.
I'm pretty militant against raising standards against God's standards since it seems so much like the Pharisees. Jesus was chapped at them for putting that yoke of slavery on the people. It seems a dangerous business and a slippery slope.
My humble thoughts and ruminations :) Like I said, I haven't arrived and I hope I'm teachable on this. It's not a pet issue for me and I'm not going to die on the hill of defending or attacking it.
Ben
Just some thoughts and ruminations since Sunday morning....It was great and caused some deep thoughts on my part at least.
First, one statement you said in the "deacon" part of the service. I realize that you and I have different perspectives on alcohol - I see it from the perspective of what it did to me in earlier years as well as what I have seen it do to individuals and families since I have been in counseling. I don't see it as a "sin" issue as much as I see it as an "example" of holiness issue. I heard Louis Giglio speak to a group of college students (actually, my oldest son heard him in 2001 and told me) address this issue - he deflected the question as to "sin or not" and just said - "ask yourself this question - IS IT HOLY?" While "social" occasional drinking may not "hurt" long term, it CAN definitely injure someone else through witness. LIke a hispanic man at RIdgecrest a number of years ago - he was saved, quit smoking and then saw some of the older deacons of the"mother" church smoking between Sunday School and church - he left and did not return for about 6 months - he saw this as a double standard.. Anyway, I believe we should try to walk in such a way - all the time - that we will not hinder anyone - especially younger, less mature believers. Since there are a vast number of other things to drink that are non alcoholic, I think we should strive to set a higher example in that area...
Another point is where God speaks to this in Proverbs 23:29-35, God speaks of the effect that alcoholics have - a perfect description of "bed spins", hangovers, etc. But, there is one verse - vs 31 - that gives direction, and I believe commandment - that to not even look at wine when it is red and sparkles in the glass - if we are not to look at it, then drinking it would be a step beyond that.
Some things to ponder at least - this is where I come from, and I know we can come from different places, and even agree to disagree. What is done in the home may be one thing - but, I believe the example we set in our homes as well as in public should be as high as humanly possible.
One more thing that you said that really kinda side-swiped me - I understood you to say after you read the qualifications of the elder and the deacon, that the bar is set high enough - let's not set it any higher. I would have to disagree with that - I think the bar is set really high for God's glory and His purpose, and we should strive to set it as high as possible, and not look for "allowances". That may not have been what you meant by that, but that's what I heard.....
My response.....
I'm glad you saw me as approachable on these observations. I haven't arrived and want to remain teachable on these issues. When I preached on deacons and elders a couple years ago, I had the chance to study this pretty close with the other elders. In actuality, we did find a shockingly high standard for a man considered for elder or deacon. The robust picture of a man leading by God or serving by God was what fueled my comment to not raise the bar above God's standard. I really don't feel compelled to preach a higher standard than God communicated to Timothy via Paul. The issue of alcohol must have been problem then too......for him to list it separately in both the elder and deacon qualifications alongside issues of temperance. It must have been a potentially volatile concern.....as it continues to be now. But yet Paul did not tell Timothy that a candidate must abstain. I don't think we should make the mistake of saying our times are different just because we have cars and more beverage choices. For alcohol use to be listed separately then, it must have a family-destroyer and home-crusher.....much like it can be now. To raise the bar above the biblical standard would be like saying that since marriage is such a challenge for so many.....and since it's difficult to serve unhindered with a wife....that deacon or elder hopefuls shouldn't marry. But Paul shows us the model for how to handle this by his handling of marriage. He says, (Ben's lame summary) "as for me.....I'll not marry....because it slows me down.....but I won't raise the bar above God's standard and impose my standards on you." Paul may be toward marriage like you are toward alcohol.....feeling like there's no option but to abstain.....and I'm honoring that choice, like I appreciate Paul's choice not to marry.
As for the issue of holiness. I know men (and I can honestly say I'm one of them) who can have a glass of wine in faith. The glass of wine is no less holy than a piece of cheesecake or mountain high apple pie Christi makes. What makes it holy or not is the heart behind the beverage or dessert or cheeseburger. If it's not consumed in faith, then it's sin. If it is consumed in faith, I'm calling it holy! The bigger concern, and what seems to Paul to matter most, is temperance. Were I to take a preaching tangent, from the list of deacon qualifications, I would rather take one on the issue of temperance. There are far too many men who are preaching or teaching deep satisfaction and contentment in the person and work of Christ.....while their bodies are preaching a contrary message of satisfaction in the kitchen. I'm prone to be one of these men. Everything in me wants to eat when I'm happy or sad....or anywhere in between for that matter. IF I were to tangent, it would be a message (or messages) on temperance with food, drink, rest, exercise, recreation, travel....or the myriad of life-sucking propensities we share with other Americans.
I'm pretty militant against raising standards against God's standards since it seems so much like the Pharisees. Jesus was chapped at them for putting that yoke of slavery on the people. It seems a dangerous business and a slippery slope.
My humble thoughts and ruminations :) Like I said, I haven't arrived and I hope I'm teachable on this. It's not a pet issue for me and I'm not going to die on the hill of defending or attacking it.
Ben
A question on idols...
Here's the question...
I need clarification from scripture of what it is to have idols in ones own life. What constitutes an idol? How do you know if something you enjoy doing as a hobby becomes a god in your life? Are we to literally turn from all things in the world? If we took the bible seriously, that would mean no TV, no videogames, no books, nothing of the world. Because if you as a Christian stand before someone and declare their interaction with ___________ an idol then they would look at you and say well you read it, played it, watched it too. Then of course Paul comes to mind when he told the brothers to not eat of the meat of the sacrifice even though they knew the truth. Honestly reviewing things like television I have struggled with finding a show that didn't have something wrong with it whether it is showing premarital sex, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, with an opposing view to such things. Thus it is deemed normal. Even if you did find a decent show the commercials would render the finding obsolete.
The same goes for books, there a some good ones but the kind I love to read are those involving wizards and warriors, fantasy type. Of course the use of sorcery is strictly forbidden in scripture I believe in Deuteronomy. But if the setting is in a fantasy world with fictitious characters and the use of magic fine within the realm of this authors imagination then is it sinful to read it in this context? Where is the line? If we take the approach that we should be better safe than sorry then of course you might as well never read again in the fiction section. Are we not to have any imagination at all? Videogames would fall under the same rule as books, there are different kinds from puzzle to role playing to action. But from what context are we to judge them if they are set in a fantasy setting where perhaps the person who created the game decided that the universe functions in a different way etc?
my response.......
My first few months at Crosspoint, I preached through the 10 commandments. The commandmant to "have no other gods before Me" is an appropriate place to find a diagnostic instrument for idols assesment. I always understood the commandment to mean that God should be 1st in my life. Well, after some Hebrew study, I found that what it actually says is "you shall have no other gods before My face." Now, that changes things. Given that God is omnipresent....there's no place His face isn't. So, rather than meaning God should be 1st in my life, it means God should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd.....infinity in my life! He should be Lord over all and in all. He should invade every compartment and space and activity and pass-time.
Now, when you consider whether something is an idol or not, you have to ask the question, is there some place or activity or pass time in my life that is irreconcilable with God? Is there some place in our lives where it would be inappropriate for God to be? Are there some activities that we cannot possibly do in faith? MOST tv shows and movies cannot be viewed in faith. Period. Some can though. For the sake of recreation or relaxation, for example. MANY video games would be difficult to enjoy in faith....at least some of the stuff I've seen lately. If they can't be enjoyed in faith and yet we want to continue participating in them.....then we've got another god "before His face" and hence an idol.
This exercise can potentially become very man-centered and legalistic and performance-oriented. So take great care in guarding your heart as you examine yourself and the responses you make. Don't EVEN venture to do them to validate your faith or earn your salvation. The heart of these activities MUST be to glorify God and enjoy Him more. Don't be afraid to be radical, for when you consider potential idols, I suspect you'll see many. I do in my own life.
I can't tell you what's an idol and what's not. ANYTHING can become an idol if not enjoyed in faithful moderation. Food is potentially an idol for me....for I often look to it more than God for comfort and satisfaction. If enjoyed in moderation and consumed in faith, enjoying the God of the food more than the food itself, then it's not an idol. Whoever thought up the idea of prayer before EVERY meal knew my heart (and maybe the heart of man). What's enjoyed in faith today can be an idol tomorrow. And what's an idol today can be enjoyed in faith tomorrow.
Ben
I need clarification from scripture of what it is to have idols in ones own life. What constitutes an idol? How do you know if something you enjoy doing as a hobby becomes a god in your life? Are we to literally turn from all things in the world? If we took the bible seriously, that would mean no TV, no videogames, no books, nothing of the world. Because if you as a Christian stand before someone and declare their interaction with ___________ an idol then they would look at you and say well you read it, played it, watched it too. Then of course Paul comes to mind when he told the brothers to not eat of the meat of the sacrifice even though they knew the truth. Honestly reviewing things like television I have struggled with finding a show that didn't have something wrong with it whether it is showing premarital sex, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, with an opposing view to such things. Thus it is deemed normal. Even if you did find a decent show the commercials would render the finding obsolete.
The same goes for books, there a some good ones but the kind I love to read are those involving wizards and warriors, fantasy type. Of course the use of sorcery is strictly forbidden in scripture I believe in Deuteronomy. But if the setting is in a fantasy world with fictitious characters and the use of magic fine within the realm of this authors imagination then is it sinful to read it in this context? Where is the line? If we take the approach that we should be better safe than sorry then of course you might as well never read again in the fiction section. Are we not to have any imagination at all? Videogames would fall under the same rule as books, there are different kinds from puzzle to role playing to action. But from what context are we to judge them if they are set in a fantasy setting where perhaps the person who created the game decided that the universe functions in a different way etc?
my response.......
My first few months at Crosspoint, I preached through the 10 commandments. The commandmant to "have no other gods before Me" is an appropriate place to find a diagnostic instrument for idols assesment. I always understood the commandment to mean that God should be 1st in my life. Well, after some Hebrew study, I found that what it actually says is "you shall have no other gods before My face." Now, that changes things. Given that God is omnipresent....there's no place His face isn't. So, rather than meaning God should be 1st in my life, it means God should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd.....infinity in my life! He should be Lord over all and in all. He should invade every compartment and space and activity and pass-time.
Now, when you consider whether something is an idol or not, you have to ask the question, is there some place or activity or pass time in my life that is irreconcilable with God? Is there some place in our lives where it would be inappropriate for God to be? Are there some activities that we cannot possibly do in faith? MOST tv shows and movies cannot be viewed in faith. Period. Some can though. For the sake of recreation or relaxation, for example. MANY video games would be difficult to enjoy in faith....at least some of the stuff I've seen lately. If they can't be enjoyed in faith and yet we want to continue participating in them.....then we've got another god "before His face" and hence an idol.
This exercise can potentially become very man-centered and legalistic and performance-oriented. So take great care in guarding your heart as you examine yourself and the responses you make. Don't EVEN venture to do them to validate your faith or earn your salvation. The heart of these activities MUST be to glorify God and enjoy Him more. Don't be afraid to be radical, for when you consider potential idols, I suspect you'll see many. I do in my own life.
I can't tell you what's an idol and what's not. ANYTHING can become an idol if not enjoyed in faithful moderation. Food is potentially an idol for me....for I often look to it more than God for comfort and satisfaction. If enjoyed in moderation and consumed in faith, enjoying the God of the food more than the food itself, then it's not an idol. Whoever thought up the idea of prayer before EVERY meal knew my heart (and maybe the heart of man). What's enjoyed in faith today can be an idol tomorrow. And what's an idol today can be enjoyed in faith tomorrow.
Ben
A question on divorce and remarriage
Here's the question.....
Do you think John Piper is right about divorce on his paper:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resourcelibrary/articles/bydate/1986/1488/
Basically stating that divorce is absolutely impossible without death. And that remarriage causes adultery. It’s a very convincing piece actually.
* “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
* And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery."
In the last verse, if a person is already an adulteress then they would not become one just because of a divorce. They were one already.
In the end I kind of agree with this position because God makes things extremely simple and intuitive and humans cloud it up with selfish desires. If we are expected to die for our belief in Christ and we expect tribulations, then how is it we dish out divorce when abuse occurs? We never separate ourselves from the torment of this life in all other cases where our faith is tested yet divorce is the exception and I can’t help but believe that is cultural influence overriding scripture.
My response....
This has been a tough issue for me. I've had a few different couples ask me to marry them with divorce in their backgrounds.....and I had to make the difficult decision not to marry them. I encouraged them to either reconcile with their former spouse or to remain single. We can do some serious gymnastics to get around this pretty clear teaching from Christ. As hard as it may be, I don't want to be a gymnast. :)
When Christ says "what God has joined together, let no man separate" I think it means that the union of man/woman is to be permanent unto death......period. If He joins us together....who are we to say it's not working out? Who are we to say we've fallen out of love? The same God that cast the stars, scooped the oceans and piled up the mountains put me and Christi together, so the power and wisdom in that ordained union MUST be final and is not to be tampered with.
This begs the question, what about those who have already remarried after divorce.....are they damaged goods? I think not.....because we have a BIG redemptive God who forgives and renews....and I KNOW the previously divorced/now remarried can be used by God. I've seen it in our body regularly. Now, just because God can forgive, I don't think it wise to knowingly enter into the sin of remarriage after divorce. My deep trust is that His grace is sufficient for the divorcee to remain single in this short twinkle of life on earth.
Ben
Can you believe and yet continue sinning?
Here's a good question from someone digging into 1 John 3.....
1 John 3:4-6
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Do Christians not sin after they “believe in him, whom He has sent”? I am confused.
My response......
See also 1 John 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Also 1 John 2:1-2 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin . And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world."
It looks like the NIV you've quoted........I think a better translation that reflects the above passages is in the NASB. It reads...
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin . 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
The key here is the use of the word "practices" along with other passages like 1 John 2:1-2..."if anyone sins.....we've got an Advocate..." The way these reconcile is that the believer should not be characterized as being a "practice-r" of sin. In other words....it is the one who does not truly believe who shows no movement in sanctification. If we profess Christ, but we see no purifying, changing, sin-dying work in us over time, then we're likely not IN Christ.
Ultimately our charge is to "Fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfector of our faith." (Hebrews 12). We do the "fixing" and He does the "perfecting" so that, over time, we sin less and less.
Ben
1 John 3:4-6
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Do Christians not sin after they “believe in him, whom He has sent”? I am confused.
My response......
See also 1 John 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Also 1 John 2:1-2 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin . And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world."
It looks like the NIV you've quoted........I think a better translation that reflects the above passages is in the NASB. It reads...
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin . 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
The key here is the use of the word "practices" along with other passages like 1 John 2:1-2..."if anyone sins.....we've got an Advocate..." The way these reconcile is that the believer should not be characterized as being a "practice-r" of sin. In other words....it is the one who does not truly believe who shows no movement in sanctification. If we profess Christ, but we see no purifying, changing, sin-dying work in us over time, then we're likely not IN Christ.
Ultimately our charge is to "Fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfector of our faith." (Hebrews 12). We do the "fixing" and He does the "perfecting" so that, over time, we sin less and less.
Ben
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Did God choose the nation of Israel because they weren't as wicked as the rest?
Here's the full question.....
Didn't God choose the Israelites because they were in better standing with God than the other nations? Did God see something more noble in them than in the others? Kind of like when God spared Noah above the rest? If so....God was justified for choosing one group over the other.
Some thoughts.....
Israel did a pretty good job of proving that they were as sorry as their neighbors....maybe even sorrier (is that a word?). When Moses met with God on Sinai, Aaron and the rest were melting gold rings and bracelets so they could make a golden calf to worship and dance around like a bunch of hooligans (Ex 32). Later, the rollercoaster that is 1st/2nd Kings and 1st/2nd Chronicles proves that they were a pretty sorry bunch. To REALLY get an image of what God thought of Israel, READ EZEKIEL 16. Get ready to read one of the raciest, in your face chapters in the Word. Once you've finished reading it, read it again.....and maybe even again. Try to feel the full weight of what God is saying to the Israelites. God ends the chapter with.....despite the fact that you've prostituted yourselves (a politically correct way of saying what God really says to them)......"I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you." God chose them, not because there were redeeming qualities, but rather because of His promise to Abraham! They ultimately benefitted from their relationship to Abraham and from a God who makes good on His promises.
Great question......more later!!
Ben
Didn't God choose the Israelites because they were in better standing with God than the other nations? Did God see something more noble in them than in the others? Kind of like when God spared Noah above the rest? If so....God was justified for choosing one group over the other.
Some thoughts.....
Israel did a pretty good job of proving that they were as sorry as their neighbors....maybe even sorrier (is that a word?). When Moses met with God on Sinai, Aaron and the rest were melting gold rings and bracelets so they could make a golden calf to worship and dance around like a bunch of hooligans (Ex 32). Later, the rollercoaster that is 1st/2nd Kings and 1st/2nd Chronicles proves that they were a pretty sorry bunch. To REALLY get an image of what God thought of Israel, READ EZEKIEL 16. Get ready to read one of the raciest, in your face chapters in the Word. Once you've finished reading it, read it again.....and maybe even again. Try to feel the full weight of what God is saying to the Israelites. God ends the chapter with.....despite the fact that you've prostituted yourselves (a politically correct way of saying what God really says to them)......"I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you." God chose them, not because there were redeeming qualities, but rather because of His promise to Abraham! They ultimately benefitted from their relationship to Abraham and from a God who makes good on His promises.
Great question......more later!!
Ben
Tuesday, January 23, 2007
a new question....the impact of God's sovereignty on our parenting
We're desperately trying to work out the bugs so your comments can be viewed....between now and then, I'd still like to field questions, so I'm entering them myself. Here's a response from someone to the John 3:16 entry.....
So you are saying that if we have come to know the Lord and accepted him as our savior, then we are of his sheep, and we were chosen by him long long before we ever knew about it? What about our children, I have a huge fear for them, this keeps me on my knees begging for their salvation. Is there anything that you can tell me about that to calm my fears?
Christi and I have three little ones so I share your burden. Let me start by saying this.....I'm not sure I want to calm your fears. I like the thought of fearful parents who aren't going to contract out their privileged role of teaching and training their children in righteousness to the church staff and sunday school teachers. I like the thought of desperate, needy, clingy, hungry, burdened parents....because I believe these parents will saturate their homes with the gospel of Christ and they'll bend their knees in begging for the souls of our children. If this truth turns me, as a parent, Godward and makes me more dependent on Him and His divine work in the hearts of my children, I'm embracing it all the more!! Frankly, the more and more acquainted I become with my own failings as a parent, the more and more comforted I am in knowing that God's the Saver through and through! So that comfort in God's saving ability teams up with my fear and trembling for the souls of my children so that I parent with a burdened trust and a striving rest.
We can't save our children, anymore than we can a friend or a neighbor or a brother or a sister. But we can prepare the soil. We can bathe our homes in prayer and wonder at the glories of Christ. We can worship with our words and our actions and hope that our children smell the aroma of Christ in us and someday say "mmmmmm, that smells gooooooood." We can teach the word in daily/weekly home studies, while begging for their little souls, and hope that someday they will hear the Shepherd's voice.
Please don't let anyone calm your fears. Please don't let anyone say something to you that causes you to exhale and relax and sit back on flowery beds of ease. Parenting is a high call and we are stewards with little plots of soil. Our only response can be to do what God has told us to do.....
Deut 6:5-9 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
GREAT question burdened, fearful parent. I hope this helps. :)
Ben
So you are saying that if we have come to know the Lord and accepted him as our savior, then we are of his sheep, and we were chosen by him long long before we ever knew about it? What about our children, I have a huge fear for them, this keeps me on my knees begging for their salvation. Is there anything that you can tell me about that to calm my fears?
Christi and I have three little ones so I share your burden. Let me start by saying this.....I'm not sure I want to calm your fears. I like the thought of fearful parents who aren't going to contract out their privileged role of teaching and training their children in righteousness to the church staff and sunday school teachers. I like the thought of desperate, needy, clingy, hungry, burdened parents....because I believe these parents will saturate their homes with the gospel of Christ and they'll bend their knees in begging for the souls of our children. If this truth turns me, as a parent, Godward and makes me more dependent on Him and His divine work in the hearts of my children, I'm embracing it all the more!! Frankly, the more and more acquainted I become with my own failings as a parent, the more and more comforted I am in knowing that God's the Saver through and through! So that comfort in God's saving ability teams up with my fear and trembling for the souls of my children so that I parent with a burdened trust and a striving rest.
We can't save our children, anymore than we can a friend or a neighbor or a brother or a sister. But we can prepare the soil. We can bathe our homes in prayer and wonder at the glories of Christ. We can worship with our words and our actions and hope that our children smell the aroma of Christ in us and someday say "mmmmmm, that smells gooooooood." We can teach the word in daily/weekly home studies, while begging for their little souls, and hope that someday they will hear the Shepherd's voice.
Please don't let anyone calm your fears. Please don't let anyone say something to you that causes you to exhale and relax and sit back on flowery beds of ease. Parenting is a high call and we are stewards with little plots of soil. Our only response can be to do what God has told us to do.....
Deut 6:5-9 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
GREAT question burdened, fearful parent. I hope this helps. :)
Ben
What about John 3:16? Doesn't "whosoever" mean "whosoever"???
Before I address this question, I'd like to introduce the concept of what I'd call "resolution." The GPS (Global Positioning) systems you have in your car or that the military uses work off of satellites. The hand-held units or car units collect date from multiple satellites to tell you where you are in the world. A GPS will not report a position to you unless it can locate 3 satellites. Anything less than that and it's not able to triangulate a position or give you an accurate answer as to where you are in the world. The resolution of the information it provides (or the accuracy) comes from multiple sources.....not a single source. Scripture is the same way. It's not sound to build a doctrine on a single verse. A single verse can be completely true without revealing the truth completely.
So, in pursuit of resolution (truth), we need to eat the full counsel and should never stand on a single verse. I adore John 3:16. It's the first verse I ever learned!! I earned a bag of peanut M&M's for learning it!! (I adored those too!!) I do believe with ALL my heart that "whosoever" believes will be saved!! That's a hill I'll die on (and live on, I trust!!) Now.....let's add in some satellites to provide more resolution. In John 10:26, Christ tells the unbelieving "you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep." In this passage belief is characteristic of sheep....like wool and hooves!! Belief doesn't make them a sheep....it's simply a trait of sheep-hood. So it is with the "whosoever's"......they (us) will believe because we are of His sheep. Another satellite is in the high priestly prayer of John 17. (especially vv. 6, 9, 19). He gives His life for those whom the Father has given Him out of the world.........those are the "whosoever's." Another satellite is Eph 2:1-10, showing that apart from Christ we're dead in our trespasses and sins, quickened by God, with Christ, and seated with the Victor! And all of this is by faith, not by works, and even the faith (faith=belief in Greek) is not of yourselves, but a gift from God! We can't even believe unless He grants it to us! "Whosoever's" will believe because He granted us belief! (also see John 6:65 "no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.")
The skies are full of satellites and every one, when weighed in and factored in, provides a more robust and resolute picture of salvation. EMBRACE John 3:16.........along with her sisters and brothers and many other family members of truth that help us understand this scandalous mysterious gospel.
So, in pursuit of resolution (truth), we need to eat the full counsel and should never stand on a single verse. I adore John 3:16. It's the first verse I ever learned!! I earned a bag of peanut M&M's for learning it!! (I adored those too!!) I do believe with ALL my heart that "whosoever" believes will be saved!! That's a hill I'll die on (and live on, I trust!!) Now.....let's add in some satellites to provide more resolution. In John 10:26, Christ tells the unbelieving "you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep." In this passage belief is characteristic of sheep....like wool and hooves!! Belief doesn't make them a sheep....it's simply a trait of sheep-hood. So it is with the "whosoever's"......they (us) will believe because we are of His sheep. Another satellite is in the high priestly prayer of John 17. (especially vv. 6, 9, 19). He gives His life for those whom the Father has given Him out of the world.........those are the "whosoever's." Another satellite is Eph 2:1-10, showing that apart from Christ we're dead in our trespasses and sins, quickened by God, with Christ, and seated with the Victor! And all of this is by faith, not by works, and even the faith (faith=belief in Greek) is not of yourselves, but a gift from God! We can't even believe unless He grants it to us! "Whosoever's" will believe because He granted us belief! (also see John 6:65 "no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.")
The skies are full of satellites and every one, when weighed in and factored in, provides a more robust and resolute picture of salvation. EMBRACE John 3:16.........along with her sisters and brothers and many other family members of truth that help us understand this scandalous mysterious gospel.
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