Crosspoint friends/family,
I read a devotional by John Piper recently that’s stuck with me through this sermon series. The title of the devotional is “A Word on Poetry” and in it he encourages scripture-driven truth-fueled expression of Christ in verse. His observations would apply to song or art or free verse or dance or whatever “artistic” worship we might imagine. One line in this devotional reads “So quickly do we pass over hard words and painful stories in the Bible. The poet lingers. And looks. And looks. And looks at this dark spot. Until he weeps and rages and then, perhaps, sees.”
As we’ve knelt with Mary in John 12, I can’t help but think she would have been a wonderful poet! For she lingers……and looks……and seems to really see when nobody else was listening. In an effort to linger, I’ve challenged myself and a young man I’m discipling to express in writing our enjoyment of Christ. Together we’re fighting and raging for delight in our Lord who’s so worthy of enjoyment. In the spirit of David, who was quite manly mind you, I’m posting my worship here and inviting others to share their “outloud” worship with me. It may be song, free verse, poetry or whatever……but we’ll offer up a symphony of satisfaction that will be as worship should be…..public.
Jesus, honey drips from your lips
Your words are salve for my wounds.
Lord, the contours of your moves
are distinct enough for enjoyment.
Fix my eyes on your shape and your essence
Fix my eyes on your words and your work
Fix my eyes on your people and your promises
Fix my eyes on your majesty and beauty
And with my eyes on you,
Perfect me, even me.
With my eyes on you,
Author your glory in me.
Oh Lamb, may I cup your feet and spend my fragrance?
How I would treasure that lingering memory.
My Lion, may I prepare you for your burial?
Knowing, with you, it’s only temporary.
What a delight you are….what a treasure you are…..what a wonder you are….
How worthy are you….how beautiful are you……how matchless are you….Your grace is ineffable, indescribable, incalculable, inestimable.
Lord, I pray that you’ll find us lingering today. I pray that you’ll fix our eyes on your Christ so we look and look and perhaps, see the wonders of this Lord! I pray that you’ll pry us from the cares of the world and deceitfulness of riches and point us on the Person and work of Christ. I pray that we’ll linger on His contours and words and works and movements so that we can delight in His beauty. I pray these things confessing that we can’t muster enjoyment but it’s a gift from you…..I beg for this enjoyment in your Son…..praying in His wonderful Name, Amen.
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
Monday, June 4, 2007
a question on alcohol
This question was after a Sunday morning service recognizing some new deacons in the Crosspoint body........
Just some thoughts and ruminations since Sunday morning....It was great and caused some deep thoughts on my part at least.
First, one statement you said in the "deacon" part of the service. I realize that you and I have different perspectives on alcohol - I see it from the perspective of what it did to me in earlier years as well as what I have seen it do to individuals and families since I have been in counseling. I don't see it as a "sin" issue as much as I see it as an "example" of holiness issue. I heard Louis Giglio speak to a group of college students (actually, my oldest son heard him in 2001 and told me) address this issue - he deflected the question as to "sin or not" and just said - "ask yourself this question - IS IT HOLY?" While "social" occasional drinking may not "hurt" long term, it CAN definitely injure someone else through witness. LIke a hispanic man at RIdgecrest a number of years ago - he was saved, quit smoking and then saw some of the older deacons of the"mother" church smoking between Sunday School and church - he left and did not return for about 6 months - he saw this as a double standard.. Anyway, I believe we should try to walk in such a way - all the time - that we will not hinder anyone - especially younger, less mature believers. Since there are a vast number of other things to drink that are non alcoholic, I think we should strive to set a higher example in that area...
Another point is where God speaks to this in Proverbs 23:29-35, God speaks of the effect that alcoholics have - a perfect description of "bed spins", hangovers, etc. But, there is one verse - vs 31 - that gives direction, and I believe commandment - that to not even look at wine when it is red and sparkles in the glass - if we are not to look at it, then drinking it would be a step beyond that.
Some things to ponder at least - this is where I come from, and I know we can come from different places, and even agree to disagree. What is done in the home may be one thing - but, I believe the example we set in our homes as well as in public should be as high as humanly possible.
One more thing that you said that really kinda side-swiped me - I understood you to say after you read the qualifications of the elder and the deacon, that the bar is set high enough - let's not set it any higher. I would have to disagree with that - I think the bar is set really high for God's glory and His purpose, and we should strive to set it as high as possible, and not look for "allowances". That may not have been what you meant by that, but that's what I heard.....
My response.....
I'm glad you saw me as approachable on these observations. I haven't arrived and want to remain teachable on these issues. When I preached on deacons and elders a couple years ago, I had the chance to study this pretty close with the other elders. In actuality, we did find a shockingly high standard for a man considered for elder or deacon. The robust picture of a man leading by God or serving by God was what fueled my comment to not raise the bar above God's standard. I really don't feel compelled to preach a higher standard than God communicated to Timothy via Paul. The issue of alcohol must have been problem then too......for him to list it separately in both the elder and deacon qualifications alongside issues of temperance. It must have been a potentially volatile concern.....as it continues to be now. But yet Paul did not tell Timothy that a candidate must abstain. I don't think we should make the mistake of saying our times are different just because we have cars and more beverage choices. For alcohol use to be listed separately then, it must have a family-destroyer and home-crusher.....much like it can be now. To raise the bar above the biblical standard would be like saying that since marriage is such a challenge for so many.....and since it's difficult to serve unhindered with a wife....that deacon or elder hopefuls shouldn't marry. But Paul shows us the model for how to handle this by his handling of marriage. He says, (Ben's lame summary) "as for me.....I'll not marry....because it slows me down.....but I won't raise the bar above God's standard and impose my standards on you." Paul may be toward marriage like you are toward alcohol.....feeling like there's no option but to abstain.....and I'm honoring that choice, like I appreciate Paul's choice not to marry.
As for the issue of holiness. I know men (and I can honestly say I'm one of them) who can have a glass of wine in faith. The glass of wine is no less holy than a piece of cheesecake or mountain high apple pie Christi makes. What makes it holy or not is the heart behind the beverage or dessert or cheeseburger. If it's not consumed in faith, then it's sin. If it is consumed in faith, I'm calling it holy! The bigger concern, and what seems to Paul to matter most, is temperance. Were I to take a preaching tangent, from the list of deacon qualifications, I would rather take one on the issue of temperance. There are far too many men who are preaching or teaching deep satisfaction and contentment in the person and work of Christ.....while their bodies are preaching a contrary message of satisfaction in the kitchen. I'm prone to be one of these men. Everything in me wants to eat when I'm happy or sad....or anywhere in between for that matter. IF I were to tangent, it would be a message (or messages) on temperance with food, drink, rest, exercise, recreation, travel....or the myriad of life-sucking propensities we share with other Americans.
I'm pretty militant against raising standards against God's standards since it seems so much like the Pharisees. Jesus was chapped at them for putting that yoke of slavery on the people. It seems a dangerous business and a slippery slope.
My humble thoughts and ruminations :) Like I said, I haven't arrived and I hope I'm teachable on this. It's not a pet issue for me and I'm not going to die on the hill of defending or attacking it.
Ben
Just some thoughts and ruminations since Sunday morning....It was great and caused some deep thoughts on my part at least.
First, one statement you said in the "deacon" part of the service. I realize that you and I have different perspectives on alcohol - I see it from the perspective of what it did to me in earlier years as well as what I have seen it do to individuals and families since I have been in counseling. I don't see it as a "sin" issue as much as I see it as an "example" of holiness issue. I heard Louis Giglio speak to a group of college students (actually, my oldest son heard him in 2001 and told me) address this issue - he deflected the question as to "sin or not" and just said - "ask yourself this question - IS IT HOLY?" While "social" occasional drinking may not "hurt" long term, it CAN definitely injure someone else through witness. LIke a hispanic man at RIdgecrest a number of years ago - he was saved, quit smoking and then saw some of the older deacons of the"mother" church smoking between Sunday School and church - he left and did not return for about 6 months - he saw this as a double standard.. Anyway, I believe we should try to walk in such a way - all the time - that we will not hinder anyone - especially younger, less mature believers. Since there are a vast number of other things to drink that are non alcoholic, I think we should strive to set a higher example in that area...
Another point is where God speaks to this in Proverbs 23:29-35, God speaks of the effect that alcoholics have - a perfect description of "bed spins", hangovers, etc. But, there is one verse - vs 31 - that gives direction, and I believe commandment - that to not even look at wine when it is red and sparkles in the glass - if we are not to look at it, then drinking it would be a step beyond that.
Some things to ponder at least - this is where I come from, and I know we can come from different places, and even agree to disagree. What is done in the home may be one thing - but, I believe the example we set in our homes as well as in public should be as high as humanly possible.
One more thing that you said that really kinda side-swiped me - I understood you to say after you read the qualifications of the elder and the deacon, that the bar is set high enough - let's not set it any higher. I would have to disagree with that - I think the bar is set really high for God's glory and His purpose, and we should strive to set it as high as possible, and not look for "allowances". That may not have been what you meant by that, but that's what I heard.....
My response.....
I'm glad you saw me as approachable on these observations. I haven't arrived and want to remain teachable on these issues. When I preached on deacons and elders a couple years ago, I had the chance to study this pretty close with the other elders. In actuality, we did find a shockingly high standard for a man considered for elder or deacon. The robust picture of a man leading by God or serving by God was what fueled my comment to not raise the bar above God's standard. I really don't feel compelled to preach a higher standard than God communicated to Timothy via Paul. The issue of alcohol must have been problem then too......for him to list it separately in both the elder and deacon qualifications alongside issues of temperance. It must have been a potentially volatile concern.....as it continues to be now. But yet Paul did not tell Timothy that a candidate must abstain. I don't think we should make the mistake of saying our times are different just because we have cars and more beverage choices. For alcohol use to be listed separately then, it must have a family-destroyer and home-crusher.....much like it can be now. To raise the bar above the biblical standard would be like saying that since marriage is such a challenge for so many.....and since it's difficult to serve unhindered with a wife....that deacon or elder hopefuls shouldn't marry. But Paul shows us the model for how to handle this by his handling of marriage. He says, (Ben's lame summary) "as for me.....I'll not marry....because it slows me down.....but I won't raise the bar above God's standard and impose my standards on you." Paul may be toward marriage like you are toward alcohol.....feeling like there's no option but to abstain.....and I'm honoring that choice, like I appreciate Paul's choice not to marry.
As for the issue of holiness. I know men (and I can honestly say I'm one of them) who can have a glass of wine in faith. The glass of wine is no less holy than a piece of cheesecake or mountain high apple pie Christi makes. What makes it holy or not is the heart behind the beverage or dessert or cheeseburger. If it's not consumed in faith, then it's sin. If it is consumed in faith, I'm calling it holy! The bigger concern, and what seems to Paul to matter most, is temperance. Were I to take a preaching tangent, from the list of deacon qualifications, I would rather take one on the issue of temperance. There are far too many men who are preaching or teaching deep satisfaction and contentment in the person and work of Christ.....while their bodies are preaching a contrary message of satisfaction in the kitchen. I'm prone to be one of these men. Everything in me wants to eat when I'm happy or sad....or anywhere in between for that matter. IF I were to tangent, it would be a message (or messages) on temperance with food, drink, rest, exercise, recreation, travel....or the myriad of life-sucking propensities we share with other Americans.
I'm pretty militant against raising standards against God's standards since it seems so much like the Pharisees. Jesus was chapped at them for putting that yoke of slavery on the people. It seems a dangerous business and a slippery slope.
My humble thoughts and ruminations :) Like I said, I haven't arrived and I hope I'm teachable on this. It's not a pet issue for me and I'm not going to die on the hill of defending or attacking it.
Ben
A question on idols...
Here's the question...
I need clarification from scripture of what it is to have idols in ones own life. What constitutes an idol? How do you know if something you enjoy doing as a hobby becomes a god in your life? Are we to literally turn from all things in the world? If we took the bible seriously, that would mean no TV, no videogames, no books, nothing of the world. Because if you as a Christian stand before someone and declare their interaction with ___________ an idol then they would look at you and say well you read it, played it, watched it too. Then of course Paul comes to mind when he told the brothers to not eat of the meat of the sacrifice even though they knew the truth. Honestly reviewing things like television I have struggled with finding a show that didn't have something wrong with it whether it is showing premarital sex, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, with an opposing view to such things. Thus it is deemed normal. Even if you did find a decent show the commercials would render the finding obsolete.
The same goes for books, there a some good ones but the kind I love to read are those involving wizards and warriors, fantasy type. Of course the use of sorcery is strictly forbidden in scripture I believe in Deuteronomy. But if the setting is in a fantasy world with fictitious characters and the use of magic fine within the realm of this authors imagination then is it sinful to read it in this context? Where is the line? If we take the approach that we should be better safe than sorry then of course you might as well never read again in the fiction section. Are we not to have any imagination at all? Videogames would fall under the same rule as books, there are different kinds from puzzle to role playing to action. But from what context are we to judge them if they are set in a fantasy setting where perhaps the person who created the game decided that the universe functions in a different way etc?
my response.......
My first few months at Crosspoint, I preached through the 10 commandments. The commandmant to "have no other gods before Me" is an appropriate place to find a diagnostic instrument for idols assesment. I always understood the commandment to mean that God should be 1st in my life. Well, after some Hebrew study, I found that what it actually says is "you shall have no other gods before My face." Now, that changes things. Given that God is omnipresent....there's no place His face isn't. So, rather than meaning God should be 1st in my life, it means God should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd.....infinity in my life! He should be Lord over all and in all. He should invade every compartment and space and activity and pass-time.
Now, when you consider whether something is an idol or not, you have to ask the question, is there some place or activity or pass time in my life that is irreconcilable with God? Is there some place in our lives where it would be inappropriate for God to be? Are there some activities that we cannot possibly do in faith? MOST tv shows and movies cannot be viewed in faith. Period. Some can though. For the sake of recreation or relaxation, for example. MANY video games would be difficult to enjoy in faith....at least some of the stuff I've seen lately. If they can't be enjoyed in faith and yet we want to continue participating in them.....then we've got another god "before His face" and hence an idol.
This exercise can potentially become very man-centered and legalistic and performance-oriented. So take great care in guarding your heart as you examine yourself and the responses you make. Don't EVEN venture to do them to validate your faith or earn your salvation. The heart of these activities MUST be to glorify God and enjoy Him more. Don't be afraid to be radical, for when you consider potential idols, I suspect you'll see many. I do in my own life.
I can't tell you what's an idol and what's not. ANYTHING can become an idol if not enjoyed in faithful moderation. Food is potentially an idol for me....for I often look to it more than God for comfort and satisfaction. If enjoyed in moderation and consumed in faith, enjoying the God of the food more than the food itself, then it's not an idol. Whoever thought up the idea of prayer before EVERY meal knew my heart (and maybe the heart of man). What's enjoyed in faith today can be an idol tomorrow. And what's an idol today can be enjoyed in faith tomorrow.
Ben
I need clarification from scripture of what it is to have idols in ones own life. What constitutes an idol? How do you know if something you enjoy doing as a hobby becomes a god in your life? Are we to literally turn from all things in the world? If we took the bible seriously, that would mean no TV, no videogames, no books, nothing of the world. Because if you as a Christian stand before someone and declare their interaction with ___________ an idol then they would look at you and say well you read it, played it, watched it too. Then of course Paul comes to mind when he told the brothers to not eat of the meat of the sacrifice even though they knew the truth. Honestly reviewing things like television I have struggled with finding a show that didn't have something wrong with it whether it is showing premarital sex, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, with an opposing view to such things. Thus it is deemed normal. Even if you did find a decent show the commercials would render the finding obsolete.
The same goes for books, there a some good ones but the kind I love to read are those involving wizards and warriors, fantasy type. Of course the use of sorcery is strictly forbidden in scripture I believe in Deuteronomy. But if the setting is in a fantasy world with fictitious characters and the use of magic fine within the realm of this authors imagination then is it sinful to read it in this context? Where is the line? If we take the approach that we should be better safe than sorry then of course you might as well never read again in the fiction section. Are we not to have any imagination at all? Videogames would fall under the same rule as books, there are different kinds from puzzle to role playing to action. But from what context are we to judge them if they are set in a fantasy setting where perhaps the person who created the game decided that the universe functions in a different way etc?
my response.......
My first few months at Crosspoint, I preached through the 10 commandments. The commandmant to "have no other gods before Me" is an appropriate place to find a diagnostic instrument for idols assesment. I always understood the commandment to mean that God should be 1st in my life. Well, after some Hebrew study, I found that what it actually says is "you shall have no other gods before My face." Now, that changes things. Given that God is omnipresent....there's no place His face isn't. So, rather than meaning God should be 1st in my life, it means God should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd.....infinity in my life! He should be Lord over all and in all. He should invade every compartment and space and activity and pass-time.
Now, when you consider whether something is an idol or not, you have to ask the question, is there some place or activity or pass time in my life that is irreconcilable with God? Is there some place in our lives where it would be inappropriate for God to be? Are there some activities that we cannot possibly do in faith? MOST tv shows and movies cannot be viewed in faith. Period. Some can though. For the sake of recreation or relaxation, for example. MANY video games would be difficult to enjoy in faith....at least some of the stuff I've seen lately. If they can't be enjoyed in faith and yet we want to continue participating in them.....then we've got another god "before His face" and hence an idol.
This exercise can potentially become very man-centered and legalistic and performance-oriented. So take great care in guarding your heart as you examine yourself and the responses you make. Don't EVEN venture to do them to validate your faith or earn your salvation. The heart of these activities MUST be to glorify God and enjoy Him more. Don't be afraid to be radical, for when you consider potential idols, I suspect you'll see many. I do in my own life.
I can't tell you what's an idol and what's not. ANYTHING can become an idol if not enjoyed in faithful moderation. Food is potentially an idol for me....for I often look to it more than God for comfort and satisfaction. If enjoyed in moderation and consumed in faith, enjoying the God of the food more than the food itself, then it's not an idol. Whoever thought up the idea of prayer before EVERY meal knew my heart (and maybe the heart of man). What's enjoyed in faith today can be an idol tomorrow. And what's an idol today can be enjoyed in faith tomorrow.
Ben
A question on divorce and remarriage
Here's the question.....
Do you think John Piper is right about divorce on his paper:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resourcelibrary/articles/bydate/1986/1488/
Basically stating that divorce is absolutely impossible without death. And that remarriage causes adultery. It’s a very convincing piece actually.
* “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
* And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery."
In the last verse, if a person is already an adulteress then they would not become one just because of a divorce. They were one already.
In the end I kind of agree with this position because God makes things extremely simple and intuitive and humans cloud it up with selfish desires. If we are expected to die for our belief in Christ and we expect tribulations, then how is it we dish out divorce when abuse occurs? We never separate ourselves from the torment of this life in all other cases where our faith is tested yet divorce is the exception and I can’t help but believe that is cultural influence overriding scripture.
My response....
This has been a tough issue for me. I've had a few different couples ask me to marry them with divorce in their backgrounds.....and I had to make the difficult decision not to marry them. I encouraged them to either reconcile with their former spouse or to remain single. We can do some serious gymnastics to get around this pretty clear teaching from Christ. As hard as it may be, I don't want to be a gymnast. :)
When Christ says "what God has joined together, let no man separate" I think it means that the union of man/woman is to be permanent unto death......period. If He joins us together....who are we to say it's not working out? Who are we to say we've fallen out of love? The same God that cast the stars, scooped the oceans and piled up the mountains put me and Christi together, so the power and wisdom in that ordained union MUST be final and is not to be tampered with.
This begs the question, what about those who have already remarried after divorce.....are they damaged goods? I think not.....because we have a BIG redemptive God who forgives and renews....and I KNOW the previously divorced/now remarried can be used by God. I've seen it in our body regularly. Now, just because God can forgive, I don't think it wise to knowingly enter into the sin of remarriage after divorce. My deep trust is that His grace is sufficient for the divorcee to remain single in this short twinkle of life on earth.
Ben
Can you believe and yet continue sinning?
Here's a good question from someone digging into 1 John 3.....
1 John 3:4-6
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Do Christians not sin after they “believe in him, whom He has sent”? I am confused.
My response......
See also 1 John 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Also 1 John 2:1-2 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin . And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world."
It looks like the NIV you've quoted........I think a better translation that reflects the above passages is in the NASB. It reads...
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin . 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
The key here is the use of the word "practices" along with other passages like 1 John 2:1-2..."if anyone sins.....we've got an Advocate..." The way these reconcile is that the believer should not be characterized as being a "practice-r" of sin. In other words....it is the one who does not truly believe who shows no movement in sanctification. If we profess Christ, but we see no purifying, changing, sin-dying work in us over time, then we're likely not IN Christ.
Ultimately our charge is to "Fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfector of our faith." (Hebrews 12). We do the "fixing" and He does the "perfecting" so that, over time, we sin less and less.
Ben
1 John 3:4-6
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Do Christians not sin after they “believe in him, whom He has sent”? I am confused.
My response......
See also 1 John 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Also 1 John 2:1-2 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin . And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world."
It looks like the NIV you've quoted........I think a better translation that reflects the above passages is in the NASB. It reads...
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin . 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
The key here is the use of the word "practices" along with other passages like 1 John 2:1-2..."if anyone sins.....we've got an Advocate..." The way these reconcile is that the believer should not be characterized as being a "practice-r" of sin. In other words....it is the one who does not truly believe who shows no movement in sanctification. If we profess Christ, but we see no purifying, changing, sin-dying work in us over time, then we're likely not IN Christ.
Ultimately our charge is to "Fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfector of our faith." (Hebrews 12). We do the "fixing" and He does the "perfecting" so that, over time, we sin less and less.
Ben
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